Apology by Plato

Apology by Plato
My rating: 5 of 5 stars

Interesting, moving, my favorite dialogue so far. Though we've all heard "the unexamined life is not worth living" I particularly enjoyed the full quote (depending on your translation this may vary obviously):

"And if I say again that the greatest good of man is to converse daily about virtue and all that which you hear me examining myself and others, and that the unexamined life is not worth living, that you are still less likely to believe. And yet what I say is true, although a thing of which it hard for me to persuade you."

This quote is a great precursor to Jesus:
“The difficulty, my friends, is not in avoiding death, but in avoiding unrighteousness; for that runs faster than death.”


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Euthyphro by Plato

Euthyphro by Plato
My rating: 3 of 5 stars

This is sort of interesting in terms of questioning the relationship between ethics and religion, but since it refers mostly to the pagan gods with various different opinions, some of the arguments are not that interesting.

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Meno by Plato

Meno by Plato
My rating: 3 of 5 stars

This dialogue is Socrates's attempt to make the handsome Meno tell him what every instance of virtue has and only virtue has. Meno is a little slow and talks about "getting good things" rather than any soulful or golden-rule type answers.

Shortly thereafter, Meno tries to give up. So Socrates teaches a slave boy some geometry to prove that people are better off realizing all that they don't know rather than thinking they do know and being incorrect.

Then Socrates launches into some strange religious ideas he doesn't substantiate or explain in any convincing way. He ties reason and use of logic to "anamnesis" or recollection of a past life's knowledge.

Anytus comes by and makes death threats to Socrates.

Then is my favorite quote because it is the only part that makes sense to me:
"... none of us remarked that right and good action is possible to man under other guidance than that of knowledge (episteme);-and indeed if this be denied, there is no seeing how there can be any good men at all. "

But then Socrates goes on to say "right opinion" is just as good as knowledge. Seems dubious to me, since "right opinion" would likely still have a basis in knowledge of the things opined about or similar. Although, further research tells me that this might just be a bad translation, and Socrates is actually saying that a logical working out of a solution (via the Socratic method) is as good as knowledge.

Then finally Socrates concludes that since goodness isn't something we are born with, nor something we can learn, it must come from the gods. My online research tells me scholars disagree about whether he is being serious or sarcastically dismissing Meno because he can't be taught anything.

He certainly seems serious in the dialogue but he can't be because he's endeavoring to do the very thing he claims is impossible to do? Though, irony on top of irony, I don't know how effective Socrates has been in this dialogue. At least, I don't feel any smarter after reading this.


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The Republic by Plato

The Republic by Plato
My rating: 4 of 5 stars

I am reading Great Books: My Adventures with Homer, Rousseau, Woolf, and Other Indestructible Writers of the Western World and pausing to read any of the books mentioned that I have not already read. In this case, I had read most of The Republic before but couldn't remember it so I went back and read the whole thing.

Great Books didn't give me a lot of help in analyzing or dealing with The Republic so I listened to a library audiobook course about The Republic. This definitely helped in understanding all the confusing arguments Socrates makes.

Plato describes Socrates engaging in a dialogue with Glaucon and numerous other Athenians and non-citizens about a number of topics. The first part is about justice and it mostly matches up to a modern (even Christian) conception of justice. Justice is not about the force of the powerful. It's about the soul, goodness towards even enemies, and the rights of weak.

The next part is about the perfect society, but not really, because Plato didn't believe in a modern-day Western conception of legal equality based on human rights. To his credit, his perfect society is feminist- women can do whatever men can do except things requiring a lot of physical strength. Unfortunately, his society is also based on eugenics, hierarchy with little opportunity for social movement, communist, and without families. To modern ears his perfect society sounds like the perfect Young Adult Dystopian Novel; a cross between The Giver and Allegiant. According to my audiobook course, this Socrates's conception of the perfect society is the direct result of Athen's recent defeat to Sparta. Many of the aspects are either taken from Spartan society or a "correction" of something in Athenian society that Socrates perceives to be at fault for Athen's loss.

Socrates also wanted philosopher kings. As such, the book is also about Socrates's conception of making philosophy a fixed study in the way that math and geometry have fixed answers. Which is certainly an interesting concept. Philosophy (at least popular philosophy) has moved so far away from that idea that the idea of real answers in ethics and philosophy is very appealing.

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